“Businesses Just Don’t Get It,” Say Local Social Media Consultants
“Social media still matters very much,” said Adam Winters, one of 34 social-media consultant who attended last night’s Global Federation of Social Media Consultants (GFSMC) at the Airport Ramada in Newark, New Jersey.
The “Businesses Get Social” networking event, followed by a “meet and greet” at a nearby Denny’s, did not appear to attract clients or prospects. It was GFMSC’s first-annual event.
“The year before us, 2011, is what I’m calling “the Year of Social Media for Business Ventures,” said George Warrington, III, who began consulting when his 2-year Geek Squad career ended in October 2010 due to local Best Buy store closings. “It was perfect timing,” said Wilmington, whose independent film project’s $500 plea was not funded on KickStarter.
GFSMC’s founder, David Scheyd, launched his own consulting firm, “Cash In on Social Media 3.0,” from the basement of his uncle’s duplex. He and his girlfriend Terry (declined to provide last name) have plans to open an office, hire a virtual assistant and “sign on 10 lucky commission-only sales executives this week.”
Winters, Scheyd and Warrington are far from alone. The Record recently reported that many as 17% of full-time professionals are leaving their corporate roles to specialize in social-media consulting.
Like other slide-show presenters at what he called the “unconference,” Warrington received tempered applause from fellow consultants. Several took photos of his slides on their “smart phones” for their own uncredited use. Warrington, a former athletic trainer, provided the event’s keynote presentation titled: “Social Media: Can it Enable Businesses, Engage Customers, Increase Business Results, and Improve Shareholder Value?” His 64 Powerpoint slides displayed attention-grabbing quotes like “social media changes EVERYTHING,” and 2009 data from eMarketer. Warrington says he will take his firm global in March, and is considering a joint venture with some of the table companions he met last night. “I am probably going to focus on Asia because socia and business is very hot there,” he added.
During a lunch-time networking event, consultants shared business cards, personal histories, and “war stories” about difficult clients and prospects.
“Businesses just don’t get it,” said Roa Dasgupta-Banerjee, a former network engineer who last August turned social-media consultant. “If you don’t have Facebook, Twitter and things like that, how are you to be doing business in the future?” After a debate with those at his breakout table, Dasgupta-Banerjee departed the event in frustration, exclaiming, “if you don’t get it, you don’t get me.” He left behind a stack of perforated, inkjet-printed business cards. The cards provide his hotmail e-mail address and a custom AOL website that boasts “our management team: (coming soon).”
Debra Vantyme, founder of GetVerySocial-International.net!!, feels the market is “exploding like wildfire.” Her clients, which include two Harrison, NJ local restaurants, are “flocking to engage in web 2.0.”
“I’m having to turn away businesses, because demand is so strong for my ‘Get Social Business: Comprehensive Results!’ package,” says Vantyme, who left behind her stay-at-home telemarketing career to pursue what she calls the “new social media gold rush.”
“Both of my clients have different needs, so I customize my solutions to meet their individual situations,” says Vantyme. “For some, YouTube makes sense, and I take the hassle out of securing them a username, registering their account and confirming it via secure, password encrypted e-mail. Other businesses may benefit more from MySpace or Friendster.”
Vantyme’s “Get Social Business: Comprehensive Results!” program, which she offers for $65-$95, is a “turnkey” solution, and it provides clients a premium Facebook account, unique Twitter username and a “secure and registered” Gmail account. She also offers long-term retainer solutions, which includes “Get Monitoring Now!” a series of bi-weekly reports she administers using Google Alerts and SocialMention.com, a free monitoring service.
Like many of the attendees, Vantyme was enthusiastic about a “Big Dreams for a Small Business: Social Media Consultant” article that was photocopied and distributed by Robert L. Louderton, the event’s c0-chair. Louderton said he left his successful career in multi-level marketing late last year, and has attended four “Social Business Tweet-Ups” since Christmas. During these events, strangers from Twitter meet to discuss the emerging medium and financial implications. A recent event took Louderton to Trenton, NJ, which is more than an hour from his shared apartment in Central Ward.
Scheiro, who has published three eBooks, says he fires clients who don’t adhere to his “no-nonsense” process for “businesses looking for business success in social-media.”
- “First, you’ve got to commit senior leadership to changing everything they do to focus on the ROI of social media,” he says.
- Louderton recommends clients put aside sales and operation efforts for the first 8 weeks to “completely engage” in the new medium.
- Schiero provides “executive coaching” to clients using his trademarked “Social Business Roadmap,” as well as virtual-meeting rooms, eRooms, threaded discussions, instant chat and online communities.
“I’ve never been so exited about the forthcoming potential opportunities ahead of us as I am now today,” said Vantyme. “The future is what you make it to be, and the sky is the limit for businesses who are prepared to take advantage of social media to make lots and lots of money and ROI.”
Good lord, Nalty! Don’t you have a job or something to do other than writing blog posts all day? I don’t think I’ll be able to keep up at this rate.
Go make a video for Freddy’s channel or find a sponsor for WVFF something.
Alexis- that’d require effort.
Yikes. So true. And so clever.
Alexis, more posts, less videos.
???
I’ll make however many videos I want (once I get my desktop running again).
Oh i’m digging David M. Scott sending people here, because I have to believe his followers will either giggle or feel offended. But at least some will get the joke.
Hey Kevin, that’s a dude in the red, not Peggy-Anne Rather. (And obviously is not from GFSMC or whatever, but rather some Oracle Open World “Unconference” thing.)
Sorry Alexis, I was talking about Nalts. He’s reading and posting more blogs and it takes away from his vlogs and videos.
Once again, too many words, not enough interest.
Still love you, Kevin!
I hope I get invited next year.
Kevin I must agree with Marilyn. Too many words this whole week man, did your camera break?. There are those who talk about making videos and those who make videos, now I expect to see at least 4 unclenalts videos between now and Sunday, and a Nalts video, you know big production. And there better be pre-rolls on all of them.
BuddhaAd
Hilarious. I was just talking about how important people on Twitter love to talk to other important people on Twitter about their latest important social media conference and can’t wait to see each other to talk about important things. They can’t do it via phone, email or even DM…cause then none of us would know how important they are.
I skimmed this post and immediately came to the conclusion it was bullshit.
I didn’t think “this is someone’s joke” I thought “this is Nalt’s bullshit”. I have become so accustomed to reading your shill blogs for NNN and praise pieces for people (that you know are only names on YouTube because of their underhand dealings with YouTube employees) that it never crossed my mind that you may be joking.
You used to use your blog to write about the flaws and deception on the YouTube site and as proof of concept you exploited those flaws and used deception to gain 181 million views.
Now that you are also employing deception on your blog, your friends who are too nice to comment on it, but too idealistic to be party to it, have stopped commenting altogether.
You might want to poll your readers as to whether or not you crossed a line a while back and lost your integrity and their interest. Maybe this blog post is way of finding out who actually reads what you posted?
I’m building up to a point here, Nalts. Even though character assassination is a pleasant pastime, I am going to take this random piece of your textual clipart and cleverly back into saying something meaningful. Not everyone can do that.
You have cried wolf so many times that many of your readers will look at this piece, think TL;DR and move on. The YouTube Editors have done the same thing to YouTube.
When YouTube changed the browse page (the discovery page) they gave the Editors total control of discovery and removed almost all the exploits and deception that content creators relied on to overcome the obstacles YouTube created to prevent random discovery. “YouTube-directed” discovery has been strategically imposed in order to direct traffic towards longform content.
This shift in the balance of power away from content creators (who were all admittedly crooked by necessity) and into the hands of the YouTube Editors (who are crooked by choice) is what some content creators are crying about (nobody cares, they were crooked content creators after all).
The same upset happened on Digg when the “Power Diggers” could no longer dictate content discovery (and the social pecking order) on the site.
As always, Google (Don’t Be Evil) strategy does not work on YouTube because the incompetent YouTube Editors and other members of the live team have no concept of what ethical behavior is or what integrity means and their tactics reflect this. This is not surprising on a site that depends to large extent on user-based fraudulent activity to take place at arms length under safe-harbor legislation in order to force the victims to mitigate the financial damage done by posting their precious legal inventory on YouTube.
So the Google strategy of amplifying the Editor’s role on YouTube has backfired. It has only served to make everyone aware of their selfish, egocentric and often pitifully craven behavior. That in turn has led to YouTube viewers purposefully ignoring the featured videos in the banner of the browse page.
By “purposefully ignoring” I mean seeing a (fullsize) thumbnail of video content that interests them and assuming that because it is an Editor-featured video it is a trick.
This is all old news and I am sure that every member of the GFSMC is already aware of it. What is new is that Google is trying to fix this problem of failed YouTube-led discovery by introducing YouTube Trends as a different bait for the longform hook.
http://www.youtube.com/trends
A clever commentator has pointed out that all YouTube have done is stolen RWJ’s idea of collecting several established viral videos in one place to drive traffic rather than trusting several confirmed YouTube idiots to pick videos that they want to force into becoming viral by consuming established traffic.
Here comes the point that ties everything I just wrote together. The response by YouTubers to YouTube trends is “WE DON’T CARE BECAUSE WE DON’T TRUST YOU”.
To use a common analogy, HMS YouTube 2.0 is too big of a site to ever sink, the Editors have gone full steam ahead in their personal fog, Google have spotted the iceberg and have spun the wheel, but the inertia of millions of users who no longer trust YouTube means they are unable to change course and YouTube 2.0 is heading for a collision with reality.
It humors me to think that Steve, Chad, Powers and George have all already jumped into lifeboats and are rowing furiously to put some distance between themselves and YouTube 2.0. Maybe they will be the ones to build YouTube 3.0 and become actual billionaires rather than Google share holders. Maybe YouTube 2.0 needs to sink before they can replace it, that would certainly make the task much more feasible. Maybe some people who work for YouTube that appear to be deaf to the passenger’s screams have already secured a place in a lifeboat and have a new position waiting for them on YouTube 3.0 when they eventually jump.
That is all speculation, facts are even more fun.
The top rated comment on YouTube’s official video about YouTube trends with 134 thumbs up is;
Science, fuck you and your partners, you know why these vids are viral, because you pick them, and you keep the same ones on! We want the old channels, homepages, and video layouts now, we are the you in youtube, not google or hulu
TheStarwarsZXV
Even though I am biased and more receptive to comments that echo my point of view, it is my impression that the majority of the on-topic commenters believe YouTube is going to rig the Trending videos. The majority of the off-topic commenters believe YouTube is not listening at all.
Even with the support of the Gregory Brothers (Autotune The Stolen Viral Content) fans the video appears to have been badly received. If you are on the First Class deck, handing out ice creams and passengers are still shouting about an iceberg, then maybe there is an iceberg.
You have heard me say before that an Editor features your friend Matt Koval because he is a personal friend of Matt Koval. Picking individuals out of YouTubes 15,000 partners and repeatedly featuring then based on a personal relationship rather than the discovery of some new and exceptional talent, or some amazing content that will benefit YouTube the business/Community, or just because of some ethical attempt to introduce fairness to the site, is obviously wrong. I should really take back my assertion that such underhand behavior is taking place, even though it is the visible tip of the deceptive iceberg that is threatening to sink the site as a business for content creators. I really would take it all back, if it were not for the fact that the unexceptional, resource consuming, constantly featured Matt Kovall is featured on the browse page of YouTube today because he is a personal friend of a YouTube Editor.
As always, I am exactly who you think I am.
To the person above who says that Nalts has lost his integrity. You are nothing but a shallow jealous piece of shit. I would make a video for your called “Lick My Fucking Balls” but it might flagged for nudity. You say fuck you and your partner friends. You don’t even resemble a testicular hair Nalts or a facial hair on either of the YouTube Beards. So a parting comment to you, suck my man pussy you mother fucker.
Either this is A) Social Media Marketing Meets “Dinner For Schmucks” or B) A Rather Fine Spoof Worthy of The Onion! 🙂
Oh boy, conspiracy theories! Rabble rabble rabble…
I can’t remember the last time I tried to actually browse YouTube rather than just watching my subscriptions. It’s nearly impossible. The popular and featured stuff is mostly not worth watching.
@BuddhaCharlie, I appear to have awoken you from a daydream involving your testicles, Nalts’ bearded mouth and adult video footage. You seem to have written your comment before one thought had fully left your mind and the new thought had fully entered. I’m not judging you in any way, but maybe you should consider whether declaring yourself to be a homosexual exhibitionist is the best tactic when defending Nalts’ honor.
The text that you latched onto, “fuck you and your partners”, is a quote from a comment made by TheStarwarsZXV on the official YouTube video introducing YouTube Trends. It is the highest rated comment on that video. I used the quote to support my theory that there is an unexpected and potentially powerful new zeitgeist among YouTube viewers that has been brought into being by the ongoing abuse of privileges by the site’s employees.
You can watch the video (with a paltry 20k views despite the Gregory Bros involvement and the YouTube channel’s 260k subs) here;
http://youtu.be/kwitoR51R-k
@Everyone Else
The YouTube content creator community have dropped the flag and have simply accepted that YouTube is evil. The vacuum created by the absence of critical community voices, (YouTube Inc sponsored personality cults like the vlogbrothers and shaycarl are not the YouTube community, no matter how much YouTube tries to portray them as such), is that YouTube is free to abuse the trust of visitors to the site in evil ways.
That abuse has the predictable consequence of giving visitors to the site a deep seated, omnipresent mistrust of anything that YouTube is pushing. It is ironic that YouTube’s critics had actually been slowing the onset of this mistrust by tempering the behavior of YouTube employees.
As I said, the consequences of YouTube’s actions are predictable. No community leaders tried to change YouTube’s direction in the last 4 months. That means that the people outside of YouTube with foresight wanted YouTube employees to lose at least one element of the power to directly influence viewer discovery of new content at the individual creator level. Those people who could see what was coming were pleased that YouTube was going to lose the power to create another Happyslip, or another mattkoval, or reward the demands of “DangerOfNalts” in any significant way when he made an appearance.
A the risk of repeating myself, I would like to remind anyone still reading that Youtube’s footbullet is old news. The damage has been done. Mission accomplished. YouTube’s view counts are higher than ever, but the failure of their employees at inventory curation have been exposed and their attempts to steer traffic towards monetized longform content have taken a damaging blow. Exponentially increasing the cost of YouTube’s bandwidth while failing to exponentially increase YouTube’s ability to monetize that bandwidth is not good news.
What is brand new is YouTube’s attempts to save itself and the way those attempts are being greeted by the YouTube audience (particularly since viewers are being allowed to make up their own mind as individuals without the influence of the wild-eyed messiahs that lived on YouTube 1.0).
The increased overall site view count on Google-algorithm Curated content when compared to reduced view counts on Editor Curated content show that a problem exists with the YouTube Editors. The cumulative effect of allowing them to have their thumb on the site’s scales in a totally unaccountable way for years, ensuring that their buddies have never been allowed to lose, has lead to the creation of a business where some of the revenue generating members are convinced that they are not allowed to win.
That leaves YouTube ripe for replacement in the same manner facebook replaced MySpace. Facebook did not kill MySpace. MySpace employees killed MySpace. Individual employees making bad decisions and ignoring the wishes of the users killed MySpace. (It has also been argued that the fading of Yahoo was down to the arrogance of individual managers. When it is Yahoo employees that are arguing that point, your have to give it some credence).
It is my contention that YouTube can be saved as a practical (and maybe even profitable) center that caters to the needs of content creators and content consumers, but it is also my contention that as of right now there are too many content creators who do not want to see YouTube saved at all.
I believe that too many content creators have spent too many years locked below the waterline in YouTube’s boiler room. They have had to continuously bail away at YouTube’s sinking ship, while a few members of the site got to swan about on the deck.
I don’t believe that YouTube can undo the damage that that has done to the relationship between the content creators and the YouTube company. I don’t believe that content creators are satisfied that YouTube has done everything in its power over the last 5 years to help the creators acheive their goals. I don’t believe that content creators are prepared to let YouTube liars waste another 5 years of their time, whilst expecting the creators to be happy as they spin around in ever decreasing circles.
If you work at YouTube Inc you want 2011 to be a replay of 2010 (which was a replay of 2009, which was a replay of 2007). Content creators who didn’t get any help in 2010 having nothing to look forward to. The promotion and distribution of your creative output is being put in the hands of people who where born to be supermarket managers and who’s ability to prepare for Hallmark holidays is the most that is expected of them (and they even consistently throw away that opportunity to do something positive by prearranging for their favorites to make the worthless videos that are featured on those days).
Many of the major functions on YouTube that members take for granted today were forced into being by the actions of individual content creators and by bastards like me. Even the simplest changes on the site (that YouTube is now so proud of) took years to happen and were implemented with extreme resistance to change by the YouTube staff. Now that we have stopped pushing (does anyone want to argue that we haven’t?) the rate of change on YouTube is going to slow to a glacial crawl.
If you job is “YouTube Content Creator” then ask yourself can you survive another 2010? Do you want to just survive for the next five years?
“IF you don’t like YouTube then leave” may well stop being YouTube’s response to complaints and become instead the moto of the site that replaces YouTube.
^haaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha
I figure now is the right time to announce my new company, “Grant Crowell Social-Global-Omni-Intergalatic Enterprises.” Free fries with your first order.
@1000lurkers You write like your clever and educated then at the end, you type this If you job is “YouTube Content Creator” I believe you meant “If your job is”. You call ShayCarl a cult, your words mimics the hate comments that are on a cretin web-site about him and his family, and it makes me think your that person. Why don’t you show your face at VidCon so everyone can have a live debate. Instead of using Nalts form to spread you envy and hate. Women or man, you ain’t the balls to have a face to face debate with those you call a CULT or those who disagree with you.
@BuddaCharlie:
The regulars here on the WVFF comment section refer to me as the “Spelling Nazi”, because of my affinity for correcting Nalts’ spelling (and grammar), so you will not be surprised when I correct your first sentence, which should have been “You write like YOU’RE clever”. When correcting someone’s spelling or grammar, it is always a good ides to use correct spelling yourself.
Sorry, that “ides” in my last sentence was a typo, not a misspeliing!!! >P
@Marilyn Yes I have seen you correct Nalts. The person that I corrected, seems to take pride in his or her English. Me on the other hand could care less. My take on that, is if someone could cure cancer but had terrible writing skills, would it really matter? NO. If the President of the United States had terrible writing skills, does it mean he could not wipe out Iraq in one phone call? NO. If Nalts had perfect English and writing, then he would not have needed an editor on his book. What if you had perfect writing skills as you seem to, but nothing to write??
Adding to that, in the past 5 days, we have all heard of “Ted Williams” The homeless man with a golden voice. Let me ask you this Marlin, what if his grammar and spelling and writing skills are terrible?. But he has as we all know a voice from from god. Should he be corrected as you correct Nalts, because of poor grammar.
What if your car flips over and is up in flames and someone uses a phone to call 911 but the TX don’t work. However their able to text, so they text and say, “this lady really need help” poor grammar and choice of words, but they get and and save your life. Now to praise this person, or do you correct them as you do Nalts.
The grammar trolls as we call it on YouTube, are people who have no originality of their own, but are over educated. They sit behind their computer and correct those who are actually doing something.
Do you think Ray William Johnson would loose one subscriber or viewer if his audience found out he had terrible grammar. No… Because it’s don’t matter anymore.
But proper English DOES matter. That’s just the point. The Internet, texting, et al, have degraded the language and it is imperative that fans of the English language, such as me, strive to uphold the rules and structure. Otherwise our culture will be lost.
It matters to you, but not to the masses. Nalts videos have been viewed almost 200 Million times. Not one view, cared about proper English. Advertisers, YouTube and Nalts have made very good money on Nalts awesome and crazy videos. Lets look at bigger numbers than Nalts. Shane Dawsons videos were viewed 515 Million times last year. Did one view care about proper English. Blogs are dying, newspapers are dying. PRINT is dying. Will in change our culture? yes. Why does it have to be bad. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You might be able to rip my English to shreds. But I would bet you 500 bucks that I could build a working Linux OS in a much shorter time, than you. Eminem is a lyrical genius, yet bastardizes the English language. He’s made hundreds of millions of dollars. What really matters here.
A) Eminem is a misogynistic pig. His lyrics are not worth the napkin he scrawls them on with his crayon.
B) I may very well not be able to build a working Linux OS in less time than you as I have no idea of your skills. I can do it, however; I am a computer teacher, even though I sound like an English teacher.
C) It is important to our future as a race that we be able to communicate clearly and succinctly, regardless of what you and others like you think.
D) Nalts knows that I correct him in good fun; he often makes misspellings just to get my goat. He insists on spelling my name wrong on purpose, for instance. Nalts, if you are out there, back me up on this!
You’re a computer teacher. That sounds like something someone would have said in the 90s. Eminem and Shane Dawson is the future. People who don’t have a pot to piss in, have a facebook account. Misspelling as I am sure you know because Nalts talks about it, get people to watch videos and comment. I’m out of here, I have to go scream at some watermellons for a video.
Please go. And don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Whoa, Marilyn! THAT was totally uncalled for. I bet you meant that as a joke, but it was rude, immature and just plain mean. It was funny reading the two of you go back and forth, but as a “teacher” you should be embarassed. You taught us that your spelling and grammar criticisms are not just for fun and future “corrections” that you make should be taken as unwanted and offensive. The trivial mistakes and language differences that are not up to your standards should be ignored. How does it feel to be corrected?
I’ll back you up, Marilyn.
BuddhaCharlie, for me your spelling/grammar isn’t nearly as frustrating as your apparent incapacity for coherent reasoning. Reading the raw stream of brain farts you spew forth unfiltered from your mind in a stream-of-consciousness manner is starting to hurt my brain. It’s like arguing with an unreasonable, foul-mouthed six-year-old.
Nalts doesn’t exactly enforce the highest standards of discourse around here, but discussion doesn’t typically degenerate into quite the shit-fest of petty nonsense it’s been since you started highjacking the comments with your unprovoked visceral attacks against other commenters and sanity in general.
Your recalcitrant hatefulness is neither clever nor funny. You are not a lyrical genius. You are not the president. You are not a curer of cancer. You do NOT have a golden voice. In short, your rancor has no redeeming value.
Start acting like a tolerable adult instead of a belligerent child or else go find somewhere else to blight with your insipid foolishness.
(Forgive the harsh tone, but I didn’t see subtlety or understatement as the most effective means making my point clear to you.)
@Alexis Forgive my harsh tone. You might might not think that my rancor has any redeeming value. Thats because it doesn’t. Therefore I really don’t give you a rats pussy, why or the grammar troll think of me. As any blog I will type what I type, if they want to block me fine. With respect to Nalts if he ask me to stop, I would. That has not happen yet, and so I will say this. All of so called regulars here are nothing but a bunch of bitches and fucking trolls. And I don’t a fuck, how much respect Nalts has for, and if he no longer respect me because of this post. Shove you educations up your assholes and continue to learn an learn. Albert Einstein said imagination. The big YouTubers that you call cults and all this shit, have more creativity then a hair on your boob. Marylin there is no such thing a “COMPUTER TEACHER” this is the 2011. The term is outdated. hows this for grammar FUCK YOU
Wow I really chopped that post up oops
@BuddhaCharlie: The difference between you and me is that I wasn’t trying to be mean – you were.
Perhaps I should refer to myself as a Computer Skills teacher at the middle school level. It is similar to a Business teacher at the high school level. I’m sorry if you think my position doesn’t exist, but it is vital in the urban district where I work, where most of my students don’t have access to computers in their homes, and they need the skills I teach them to ever have the possibility of succeeding in this technology-driven world.
Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about, BuddhaCharlie.
You remind me of the very loud-voiced woman who was on the bus with me yesterday. She literally couldn’t seem to keep her voice down for more than ten seconds at a time despite numerous warnings from the driver. Unlike you however, she wasn’t hostile toward other passengers and I actually found her mildly amusing (for the first couple of hours anyway). The driver was eventually so annoyed though that he made her get off of the bus at a rest-stop (several hours shy of her destination).
I don’t know what your problem is dude, but for now your comments will have to approved by Nalts (or Jan) before they are posted.
@Marilyn… bust out your ruler and beat the shit out of them!
Well if my comments need to be approved by Nalts, then Nalts is not the person i thought he was. Because as YouTube Partners, or non partners. YouTube is an open platform and people use the word FUCK all time time, i.e Renneto and Phil DeFranco.
Thanks, NutCheese!!
Wow.. just wow. Violence even… 😛
Out of respect for Kevin. My future comments will be in response to his post. On YouTube if I disagree with a comment, I either make a fun response or no response at all. I stepped to a new low, with my comments and It’s not what I want to be known as. Had it been someone directly attacking Kevin, I would not be posting this. However the back and forth over the past few days have been with people who respect Kevin as I do. For that I apologizes for stooping that low. That being said, goodnight moon, goodnight stars…………………………………. Thanks Stalker Of Nalts
Thanks for that, BuddhaCharlie, and apologies for any undeserved harsh words directed at you.
It can get feisty around here sometimes and it’s usually all in good fun. Kevin attracts all kinds of weird and interesting people, so you’re bound to disagree with some of them. Stick around and have fun, but don’t take things too personally or too seriously.
WOW! You guys drink a lot of coffee!
Indeed